Just a quick alert. Beware of anyone cold calling selling wine as an investment. I know this sounds like obvious advice, but some people seem to ignore it.
Lionel Nierop, who runs Bid For Wine, told me that he’s discovered that a scam company had been cold calling consumers, selling wine as an investment while pretending to represent Bid For Wine (who don’t use any telephone sales techniques). This is quite scary for someone like Lionel, because if consumers paid for wine, and then it failed to materialize, he’d be left to pick up the pieces.
Jancis Robinson has written on the topic here. And Jim Budd has bravely published a list of companies he wouldn’t buy wine from here.
Be careful who you buy your wine from.
95 Comments on Watch out: wine investment scam cold calling
i have received a bill from a wine company no list of wines purchased or prices.am i under any obligation to pay this bill as i may have inadvertently agreed purchase as this company is on list of those to avoid.Any help would be greatly appreciated. thanks to jamie Goodie for excellent website
I was cold called 3 times by “Silvermere ltd” today. The 1st time was only 10-15 minuets of corporate spin. I thought it sounded dodgy and to good to be true, so I refused. They wanted me to buy wines from “Vin-ex Wines”. They said they will send me a company publicity magazine next week, which I will put in the bin. The guy was called Ricky.
A few hours later I was hit by 2 more cold corporate calls harassing me in to agreeing to buy the “Vin-ex Wines” wine and “Gray Eye Forestry” wood and forestry land plots. I said I was not interested, it sounded dodgy and slammed down the receiver. The guy was called Dan.
I was also called by a bloke called Albert yesterday, from “Grayson Consulting”. He wanted to do a consumer survey on my home continence insurance, life insurance and freezer warranties.
I turned him down as his phone-line was very poor quality and he seemed a bit of a shifty sort by the way he spoke. Are they connected to “Silvermere ltd”, “Vin-ex Wines” and “Gray Eye Forestry”.
In relation to my 2014 brush with the “London Wine Exchange”, it’s now out of business. https://www.endole.co.uk/company/07882292/london-wine-exchange-limited
Hi all has anyone heard of a company called v c l vintners ltd .i have been pestered non stop by them for the last week or so promising huge financial gains by investing in there wines any help will be greatfuly received
APN had a young lad who sounded like Dan call up twice to offer me shares in a faking site. I refused since 80% profit is impossible.
Hi Martin B,i have been pestered via phone calls by VCL Vintners too over the last week or so.Is there anyone who can shed some light on this company please?Thanks in advance.
Just done a bit if research by cross checking company name changes/previous names using Company House website and Jim Budd’s list of companies he would not touch(see link at start of page)to find out anything about VCL Vintners LTD.They were originally Vine Investments Ltd AUG/NOV 2010 then changed name again to Vine Capital LTD NOV 2010 TO JULY 2016.Here is what Jim Budd posted about these company’s….
Vine Capital Ltd: Founded 2.8.10. Previous name Vine Investments Ltd (changed on 17.11.10). Registered office 111 Buckingham Palace Road Victoria, Westminster, London SW1W 0SR – serviced office 16.6.11 ‘Vine Capital Ltd, one of the leading Fine Wine Commodity Brokerage’s in South East London & North Kent is now recruiting sales personnel’s to join their fast and expanding team.’
We expect all candidates who wish to apply to be; Target Driven, Money Hungry and Hard Working. Experience in telephone sales is essential, however training is provided. Candidates with a proven sale’s track history will have a much greater advantage in being successful.’ (Knowledge of fine wine not mentioned but previous experience of cold calling presumably an advantage.)
APN had a young lad who sounded like Dan call up twice to offer me shares in a fraking site. I refused since 75% profit is impossible.
Ever heard of Capital Management Services? A bloke called Derek called last night offering me shares in a “dynamic e-business development company” that had a 87% profit margin. To good to be true!…
Hello, Ive just had a cold call from a company called bwc a management company involved with fine and rare wine investment in London. Can you give me any feedback about this company and whether it is genuine or not?
I have been contacted by some guys in Dow and Jones trying to sell me wine investments. When I told them I was not interested and asked them to remove my contact information they became rude and when I told them in no uncertain terms I was not interested, they threatened me with the promise that I would be receiving “plenty more of these calls”. A couple of days later I received a further call from them and the guy was again rude and shouted at me to “SHUT UP” when he was hanging up. I am now receiving further calls from unsolicited companies. I will have to report them. Avoid Dow and Jones Wine Investment callers like the plague.
I received a call last week with a typical fast-talking greeting: “Hello it’s (unintelligible) from Dow & Jones, how are you today?”
This raised my red flag and asked him to repeat his details. When I told him I’d never heard of his company, was registered with TPS and he shouldn’t be calling me, he insulted me.
These are apparently wine scammers: avoid like the plague.
Tip: if you answer a call and there is silence for more than two seconds, hang up immediately; this will save a lot of emotional energy.
Now had 2 calls from Dow and Jones, a Mr Morgan Sinclair. On the first call, when I had the temerity to query some of his financial claims for wine he said “oh, just go away!” and put the phone down.
Now just had another call from them and when I asked him to repeat his name and company he just put the phone down. Clearly they are scammers and not very good at their chosen profession either!
Called by Dow & Jones. Having had 2 calls from the same number when out, I knew exactly who and what they were, so when they asked how I was I replied that I knew that they were not interested in my health. He then asked if I was always “such a miserable prick.” Managed to put the phone down before he did
March 21st 2017 at 1130am
We too had calls from the rude Morgan Sinclair of “Dow and Jones”. Once challenged by our resident solicitor he told us to go back to daytime TV! DO NOT BOTHER with this scammer.
I got a call from Dow & Jones and refused to take up the silly deal.
I got a similar call about land banking in Kent by Capital Management Services yesterday and said no.
The bloke that run Optimum Fine Wines was jailed in Kent yesterday according to the newspapers.
Always being called by Imperial wines of London.
Sadly 2years ago (under pressure due having to catch a connection)I invested £3400 in a case of wine foolishly thinking I could get it back if I changed my mind, having asked for it to be returned I was told I should buy another wine and when sold together I would be well in profit, I of course refused but this has not stopped them, they seem to have this excellent wine which is so good buyers are falling over themselves to buy it
3 DOW&JONES calls this week, strung them along for 1hr+ asked which restaurants they supplied which put sales guy on the spot somewhat, he mentioned NOBU who I emailed to confirm this “fact” unsurprisingly NOBU wine buyer replied never heard of D&J !
is there any chance of either getting money back or the wine from Dow and Jones?
I have an elderly friend who unfortunately parted with money recently and I wanted to know if anyone had tried?
Hi all I’ve had these vcl Pepole call me today red flag went up right away the guy on the phone was desperate to get singed up to buy £5000 to £10000 worth of wine all this after call calling me out of the blue!
I’m sorry but these scammers are not only stupid but quite ill informed on the very wine’s there selling a turly laughable operation.
Silvermere called today trying to flog me wine ald land banking, but I told the droaning rep’ (Roy) I was bored and put the phone down.
Guys this is utter nonsense! I have invested with Dow&Jones for over 10 years and I have received my investment returns on the 25th of December every year since 2007. I was searching on Google to see if they had finished editing their website and stumbled across this rubbish. If you are not serious investors then do not spread silly rumours about well-established brokerage firms.
Hi
About a year ago I foolishly invested £2100 in a case of wine with Dow and Jones. I realise now this is a scam but I would just like to bring it to other peoples attention to stop them getting caught in a similar way.
was cold called by someone apparently from vcl and when i made it clear i wasn’t interested i received verbal abuse and was cut off! nice! please don’t waste your time with these people!
I have received an excellent service from the company I’m dealing with “Dow & Jones” , I have chosen to receive my profits annually and have had no issue what so ever. Great company to go for.
@John (07/06/2017) I don’t know how you have been investing in Dow and Jones for 10 years because according to Companies House, they have only been trading since 15th September 2015. Also how do they pay your investment returns on the 25th December every year, that’s Christmas Day, and all financial institutions are closed. I invested in Dow And Jones two years ago, and I am still waiting for ANY return on my £100,000 investment. When I checked on Companies House Website, Dow and Jones are late filing their annual tax return which was due on 15/06/2017. I have since filed a query with HMRC. I have somewhat slowly realised that this company was a complete scam and they have robbed me of a hefty sum of money. It is a horrific because I originally invested thinking that I would leave my sons more inheritance, but in reality I will leave them nothing.
I have invested with Dow & Jones for about a year. My bonded warehouse account was set up, wines were transferred very quickly. Buy and sell a lot of wines through them, haven’t had an issue. Surprised to see all of this. Think people need to do more fact checking about what a scam really is. Don’t see anything about people investing and never getting their wines?
Dow and Jones financials aren’t brilliant but they are solvent.
http://www.datalog.co.uk/browse/detail.php/CompanyNumber/09778709/CompanyName/DOW+AND+JONES+LTD
Their most recent accounts show cash of £15k
They have lots of debtors £110k and £154k of creditors
If you’re ordering wine from them then you’ll probably get it
If you are a creditor and invested in them, then it’s going to take a while for you to get your money back.
I’ve invested in wines, with Dow and Jones. Been with them for a year. Everything seems above board, had no issues. Would recommend them, if you want peace of mind of wines actually existing
Got a typical high pressure unsolicited sales call from a Brandon Harris at a company called Rosevelts based in Canary Wharf selling a fantastic investment in Fine wines allegedly making 12% returns. Claim to have years of experience. According to Companies house they haven’t filed a tax return yet and the director is 26….so clearly they are VERY experienced. I suspect it is another one of these bullshit “en primeur” deals. My advice would be steer well clear
For those of you that may have been threatened by these very unpleasant people (I reported incidents 6 months ago to the Police) may I suggest that you put 141 in front of the number below which withholds your number. We all know that the 02036870028 is fake in the CLID when they call you.
I just felt really good in giving them some of their own medicine and I suggest that if we all do it at once they may not be able to make outgoing calls?
The man asked what I was calling about after I treated him as he treats others and then calmly said Goodbye. I’ve just discovered a new sport. Its called a…hole baiting and it makes me feel empowered again!
Address: 16 High Holborn, London WC1V 6BX
Hours: Open today · 10am–7pm
Phone: 020 3751 2421
Has anyone had any dealings with Oenofuture? Recently cold called by them for investment purposes. Very persuasive sales technique but due diligence required before I dig in my pockets !
anyone hear of or do business with Charles-Winn.com??
I was also approached, was sent lots of links to great reviews and apparent governing bodies. All seems a bit too desperate. You can buy en primeur wine yourself and store and insure it at a small cost, with a reputable and established firm.I think I will go down that route.
I “invested” with Dow and Jones and now can not get hold of anybody by phone or email. Handed over £2600 for 12 bottles of Chateau D’YQUEM 1997 vintage. In reality I’ve handed money over for nothing haven’t I and the money has gone? Has anybody else been a victim of this and is there anything that can be done to get the money back?
Thanks Magan for this information. Like an earlier poster, I am curious as to any changes that has come with time or recent rule / policy changes. I am also interested in an other aspect to distributing imported wine. How do you think, it would work for e-commerce players who work nationally. Are the state taxes still a valid consideration? To put it simply, What if I was shipping directly to customer after paying the 160% customs-paid price (CPP).
The operators sometimes work from a rental-room office in a U.S. city and ‘sell’ you wine to be stored in a vault somewhere in England. So now you’ll have lots of different jurisdictions to deal with – none of which work with the other. The laws are engineered to protect the thieves. And this is why they do it. What I find amazing is that you’d be hard pressed to find any law enforcement agency in any country or any city, that would work with any of us to start bringing these thieves down. I’ve tried and gotten nowhere. Is it because: A. Law enforcement enjoys making more money/overtime on investigation AFTER the theft, or B. Law enforcement doesn’t really care about reducing obvious, blatant crime as it means work. I don’t know which, but obviously law enforcement appears to be a taxpayer-funded charade. We should all have jobs like that.
I got some high pressure cold calls late last leaving from:
Derek at Dowie Jones Plc (beer)
Mike at Elite Fine Wines Plc (wine)
Nikki at Fine Wine Market Plc (wine)
Boris at Prestige Fine Wine Plc (wine)
Lee at Canary Wharf Vintner corp (wine)
Leonora at BT IT Technical Department (IT security systems)
I immediately hung up each time.
Bent “London Wine Exchange” has closed down.
https://companycheck.co.uk/company/07882292/LONDON-WINE-EXCHANGE-LIMITED/companies-house-data
Has anyone recently had dealings with these?
I received a call from Charles Winn about a month ago and listened to the spiel and it was very detailed and sounded good until I started researching the company. Turns out the companies LLC wss formed on 08-03-17, not 2006 like the website advertises. The physical location is not even a business locaton, as it looks more like an apartment complex in Wilmington or a very small suite in a non-professional looking complex. The cell phone number Christian Carter(the “broker” who contacted me)gave me has a prefix out of Dallas area and when you call it, it just plays music and different people answer it. 214-256-4489. The website is not a legit website, and they have no individual emails, and no 1-800 # like a professional investment company would and it just smells like fraud and scam all over the place. The guy keeps calling me to invest and I’ve told him no now over 10 times. These people are annoying and need to be made aware of. I could go on and on but you get the idea.
Hi,
Does anybody knows any information regarding the Oenofuture wine company?
what do you think?